1 00:00:06,710 --> 00:00:04,249 welcome to tales from the rabbit hole 2 00:00:08,990 --> 00:00:06,720 I'm your host Mick West my guest today 3 00:00:12,290 --> 00:00:09,000 is a flat earther someone who actually 4 00:00:13,610 --> 00:00:12,300 believes that the earth is flat or at 5 00:00:15,950 --> 00:00:13,620 least believes that the earth is not a 6 00:00:17,810 --> 00:00:15,960 spinning ball in space someone who has a 7 00:00:20,390 --> 00:00:17,820 lot of questions about the very nature 8 00:00:22,759 --> 00:00:20,400 of our reality and so I thought it'd be 9 00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:22,769 interesting to ask this person about 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:24,240 what's going on now about the 11 00:00:29,410 --> 00:00:26,010 coronavirus and about the effect it's 12 00:00:32,540 --> 00:00:29,420 having in the world and how they view 13 00:00:34,549 --> 00:00:32,550 this change in the world do they think 14 00:00:37,069 --> 00:00:34,559 it's some kind of artificial change 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:37,079 that's being foisted upon the world or 16 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:38,730 do they think that the coronavirus is 17 00:00:44,330 --> 00:00:41,730 real and how does it work when you 18 00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:44,340 believe that the world is some kind of 19 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:47,070 illusion this is actually flat where and 20 00:00:52,729 --> 00:00:49,440 everyone else is saying it's round how 21 00:00:56,540 --> 00:00:52,739 do you fit this kind of weird strange 22 00:00:59,180 --> 00:00:56,550 disconnect with reality into a reality 23 00:01:01,630 --> 00:00:59,190 that forces itself upon you when people 24 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:01,640 you know perhaps or people you know 25 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:04,320 friends of friends start to die from 26 00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:07,650 coronavirus when does reality kind of 27 00:01:11,380 --> 00:01:09,780 hit home and do you ever stop 28 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:11,390 questioning the nature of that reality 29 00:01:19,490 --> 00:01:14,430 and should you okay you are now being 30 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:19,500 recorded hi how are you I'm doing good 31 00:01:24,410 --> 00:01:21,930 so this is this is actually the first 32 00:01:26,140 --> 00:01:24,420 tales from the rabbit hole podcast that 33 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:26,150 I've recorded for quite a while because 34 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:29,280 you know I've kind of been so distracted 35 00:01:34,399 --> 00:01:31,770 by this coronavirus thing that's going 36 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:34,409 on that it's it's getting really made 37 00:01:40,609 --> 00:01:35,729 difficult for me to focus on other 38 00:01:45,020 --> 00:01:40,619 things have you ever been experienced I 39 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:45,030 felt very my focus has been taken by it 40 00:01:52,609 --> 00:01:49,290 in a huge way I wanted to carry on as 41 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:52,619 usual as much as possible but certainly 42 00:01:59,870 --> 00:01:57,210 that's been I'm not not easy to do yeah 43 00:02:02,660 --> 00:01:59,880 I haven't I gotta be honest I haven't 44 00:02:04,550 --> 00:02:02,670 checked in in your podcast so sooner I 45 00:02:06,709 --> 00:02:04,560 don't even know what's been going on in 46 00:02:08,359 --> 00:02:06,719 your general research or views or 47 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,369 whatever you could tell me about that if 48 00:02:12,030 --> 00:02:10,830 you want to yeah well I quite a variety 49 00:02:15,179 --> 00:02:12,040 of people on 50 00:02:17,759 --> 00:02:15,189 my podcast say I you know I cover all 51 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:17,769 kinds of different topics I did actually 52 00:02:23,670 --> 00:02:20,260 just have a guy who was a flat earther 53 00:02:25,649 --> 00:02:23,680 on and he would say a former flat 54 00:02:27,630 --> 00:02:25,659 earther it's not often you actually get 55 00:02:29,690 --> 00:02:27,640 to talk to someone who used to be a 56 00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:29,700 believer in the flat earth and now isn't 57 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:32,590 actually did meet one guy recently who 58 00:02:37,170 --> 00:02:35,170 identified in that way it was 59 00:02:39,149 --> 00:02:37,180 interesting cuz he was he was kind of 60 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:39,159 joining in the podcast and he's very 61 00:02:43,949 --> 00:02:41,920 nice guy and it was fun to talk to him 62 00:02:45,420 --> 00:02:43,959 and I didn't realize at first that that 63 00:02:47,309 --> 00:02:45,430 was sort of his position and it was 64 00:02:50,059 --> 00:02:47,319 coming out and I was like oh so you're a 65 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:50,069 former flat earther you know I was like 66 00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:52,810 tell me like what what brought you in or 67 00:02:58,500 --> 00:02:53,200 what 68 00:03:01,229 --> 00:02:58,510 started talking about it and it was just 69 00:03:02,789 --> 00:03:01,239 it was interesting because the things he 70 00:03:05,429 --> 00:03:02,799 were saying I was like well you weren't 71 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:05,439 really a flat earther to begin with he 72 00:03:08,970 --> 00:03:07,209 was like he was like yes I wasn't like 73 00:03:11,009 --> 00:03:08,980 alright well you can identify any way 74 00:03:15,270 --> 00:03:11,019 you want but it was interesting because 75 00:03:17,250 --> 00:03:15,280 I I was very curious to hear here what 76 00:03:19,050 --> 00:03:17,260 that would be like for somebody and I 77 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:19,060 guess when he was talking about I was 78 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:21,010 like well yeah I don't think you ever 79 00:03:25,469 --> 00:03:23,650 flat out there but it's great to have 80 00:03:28,379 --> 00:03:25,479 you here cuz to be honest sometimes it's 81 00:03:29,849 --> 00:03:28,389 kind of boring with just flat earthers 82 00:03:32,309 --> 00:03:29,859 cuz it's like I was just nice to have 83 00:03:33,869 --> 00:03:32,319 like a you know a little bit of like I'm 84 00:03:36,689 --> 00:03:33,879 gonna ask you something and you're gonna 85 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:36,699 ask me something yeah nice nice to be 86 00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:39,609 around just a gentle kind fun 87 00:03:44,969 --> 00:03:43,060 disagreements and so I guess like from 88 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:44,979 from that obviously you are still you 89 00:03:51,140 --> 00:03:46,930 still identify as a flat earther knows 90 00:03:53,909 --> 00:03:51,150 how you described yourself I mean I 91 00:04:00,689 --> 00:03:53,919 don't believe in the spinning ball right 92 00:04:04,349 --> 00:04:00,699 so I don't um I'm even more and more 93 00:04:06,119 --> 00:04:04,359 like they just I don't know it's a kind 94 00:04:08,069 --> 00:04:06,129 of tense time out there with headlines 95 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:08,079 and the way people talk about things so 96 00:04:16,529 --> 00:04:14,650 I guess the the question of the shape of 97 00:04:18,749 --> 00:04:16,539 the world I'm still very much I don't 98 00:04:23,310 --> 00:04:18,759 see I don't see it as the globe I'm 99 00:04:25,290 --> 00:04:23,320 something that's gonna change last time 100 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:25,300 we talked I remember we can have like 101 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:25,810 each 102 00:04:30,090 --> 00:04:27,310 be a bit about your story and how you 103 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:30,100 started out with the Flat Earth and you 104 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:32,530 gave me this this one example or 105 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:34,180 something that convinced you which was 106 00:04:39,450 --> 00:04:36,430 this difference in the speed of the 107 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:39,460 earth between the equator and and say 108 00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:45,220 the UK and how how yeah you would have 109 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:47,260 to change speeds to get from one place 110 00:04:51,450 --> 00:04:48,580 to the other and you thought that would 111 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:51,460 be a very noticeable thing and you've 112 00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:55,510 you you don't think it is noticeable do 113 00:05:02,850 --> 00:04:58,330 you remember talking about that I do I 114 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:02,860 do absolutely um yeah I mean to say 115 00:05:07,710 --> 00:05:06,250 convince me she could you could kind of 116 00:05:09,810 --> 00:05:07,720 put it like that but the way that I 117 00:05:13,710 --> 00:05:09,820 would say is like that there was a 118 00:05:15,659 --> 00:05:13,720 series of questions that I thought about 119 00:05:17,610 --> 00:05:15,669 and then I would go research and then it 120 00:05:21,350 --> 00:05:17,620 would be like it really compounding 121 00:05:26,129 --> 00:05:21,360 evidence so but that was a pivotal 122 00:05:28,740 --> 00:05:26,139 little stage in exploring things very I 123 00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:28,750 still think that's very good evidence to 124 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:32,140 question if we're if the earth is 125 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:35,710 spinning like I've sort of like how how 126 00:05:42,690 --> 00:05:40,210 can I explain it in other ways this 127 00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:42,700 different example if you're running a 128 00:05:47,010 --> 00:05:45,280 race you're running like a three-mile 129 00:05:49,230 --> 00:05:47,020 sprint or something you just go at 130 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:49,240 breakneck speed you run three miles and 131 00:05:54,330 --> 00:05:52,060 suddenly you cross the finish line and 132 00:05:57,719 --> 00:05:54,340 you stopped what does that feel like 133 00:06:02,159 --> 00:05:57,729 when you stop you can feel yeah 134 00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:02,169 everything and it's not because some 135 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:05,320 external force is pushing you down or 136 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:07,690 put pushing you forward it's because you 137 00:06:14,370 --> 00:06:11,110 have to stop yourself you have to have 138 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:14,380 an internal adjustment all you you you 139 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:17,889 you feel you feel the fact that you just 140 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:20,200 slowed down and you slow it down 141 00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:22,330 instantly this is very different from 142 00:06:27,659 --> 00:06:24,160 slowing down over ten hours or nine 143 00:06:28,860 --> 00:06:27,669 hours well but you slowed down from a 144 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:28,870 rate of three 145 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:33,220 you know you slowed down well whatever 146 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:35,050 you write you say yeah so you're running 147 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:36,220 as fast as you can 148 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:39,440 you running at 10 miles an hour 149 00:06:45,690 --> 00:06:41,840 you slow down in one second that's ten 150 00:06:49,150 --> 00:06:45,700 miles per hour over one second this is 151 00:06:54,130 --> 00:06:49,160 going from you know this 400 mile per 152 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:54,140 hour over 10 hours it's very very 153 00:07:00,700 --> 00:06:55,970 different 400 miles per hour is what 10 154 00:07:05,890 --> 00:07:00,710 miles per hour times 40 but nine hours 155 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:05,900 is one seconds times 160 times 60 times 156 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:09,980 nine so what you're saying is basically 157 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:12,650 that there is a change you do have to 158 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:16,610 adjust it but I'm here you you it's such 159 00:07:21,310 --> 00:07:19,220 a subtle change you shouldn't expect to 160 00:07:23,650 --> 00:07:21,320 notice is that everything essentially 161 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:23,660 and like we can do the math like I just 162 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:25,610 said that 60 times 60 times nine is the 163 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:30,050 number of seconds in nine hours which is 164 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:32,240 the time it takes to fly from London to 165 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:34,010 India I remember that because they 166 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:36,290 always said India only nine hours away 167 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:40,400 on the commercials so 60 times 60 times 168 00:07:50,170 --> 00:07:47,440 nine is 32,400 so we're talking about 169 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:50,180 we've got 32 thousand four hundred times 170 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:52,970 as much time to slow down as that one 171 00:08:00,159 --> 00:07:54,530 second you do when you when you finish 172 00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:00,169 the race in what way do you observe that 173 00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:02,630 change in what way do you observe the 174 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:06,080 fact that you have to slow down even if 175 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:08,210 even if it's subtle it should be 176 00:08:13,750 --> 00:08:10,310 observable where I mean I don't even 177 00:08:15,970 --> 00:08:13,760 really I don't but if it's even if what 178 00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:15,980 you're saying is true and that it would 179 00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:17,840 be subtle it it should still be 180 00:08:21,610 --> 00:08:20,000 something that can be detected not 181 00:08:23,590 --> 00:08:21,620 really because there's so many other 182 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:23,600 things going on the plane is actually 183 00:08:30,159 --> 00:08:26,320 speeding up and slowing down as it flies 184 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:30,169 to larger amounts than you're actually 185 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:32,570 talking about here like over time so you 186 00:08:37,839 --> 00:08:35,390 might have to change speed from say 400 187 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:37,849 miles per hour to 390 miles per hour 188 00:08:42,459 --> 00:08:40,010 if it needs to change altitude if he 189 00:08:46,150 --> 00:08:42,469 needs to get higher or lower saying that 190 00:08:51,310 --> 00:08:46,160 that the code is the variance of near 191 00:08:53,020 --> 00:08:51,320 zero at the poles 2,000 miles per hour 192 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:53,030 at the equator 193 00:09:02,170 --> 00:08:57,080 should not be a variance that anybody 194 00:09:04,270 --> 00:09:02,180 can do any device up rather you could do 195 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:04,280 it with the device to do with the device 196 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:05,720 you certainly can and he does actually 197 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:07,010 have an effect if you want to fly 198 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:09,470 directly from from the poles to the 199 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:12,310 equator there's actually you can't just 200 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:14,390 you have to come take that into account 201 00:09:19,210 --> 00:09:17,690 to some degree but really that's not how 202 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:19,220 planes navigate they don't they don't 203 00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:20,920 just say I'm gonna fly in this direction 204 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:23,240 for a certain amount of time and I'll be 205 00:09:28,450 --> 00:09:24,950 there because that's the direction I set 206 00:09:30,610 --> 00:09:28,460 out in the the effects of the wind are 207 00:09:32,890 --> 00:09:30,620 far greater than any of these these 208 00:09:34,510 --> 00:09:32,900 changes over that distance because 209 00:09:36,430 --> 00:09:34,520 you're facing things like a hundred mile 210 00:09:38,740 --> 00:09:36,440 per hour side wind or a headwind or a 211 00:09:41,170 --> 00:09:38,750 tailwind and it changes as you go as you 212 00:09:43,180 --> 00:09:41,180 fly around the globe the wind's changes 213 00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:43,190 so you've got these huge changes in wind 214 00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:46,310 speed that you have to account for with 215 00:09:52,930 --> 00:09:48,800 the acceleration of the or the engines 216 00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:52,940 of adjusting them up or down so this 217 00:09:58,390 --> 00:09:55,760 very very small adjustment over time to 218 00:10:01,000 --> 00:09:58,400 get an extra 400 miles per hour in one 219 00:10:02,890 --> 00:10:01,010 direction it's really not going to be 220 00:10:04,690 --> 00:10:02,900 measurable it's the same thing as if you 221 00:10:07,420 --> 00:10:04,700 were running a race let's say you're 222 00:10:09,250 --> 00:10:07,430 running a 10k race you start out running 223 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:09,260 you're running at a good clip at the 224 00:10:13,330 --> 00:10:11,090 start you're doing six miles per hour 225 00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:13,340 when you finish the race you're a bit 226 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:14,720 tired so you're only ringing at five 227 00:10:19,540 --> 00:10:17,540 miles per hour are you gonna notice that 228 00:10:22,540 --> 00:10:19,550 slowdown of one mile per hour over the 229 00:10:24,970 --> 00:10:22,550 course of that that 10k race takes you 230 00:10:29,770 --> 00:10:24,980 30 or 40 minutes I think a lot of people 231 00:10:32,290 --> 00:10:29,780 would actually I think that variance is 232 00:10:35,980 --> 00:10:32,300 detectable I mean we we feel that all 233 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:35,990 the time is where we're a world of 234 00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:39,650 observing variance they're like if in a 235 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:44,300 pattern of variance so the wind is a 236 00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:47,450 great example the wind should be largely 237 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:51,500 affected by this variance but it's it's 238 00:10:56,950 --> 00:10:55,490 somewhat erratic in it's not I mean you 239 00:10:58,930 --> 00:10:56,960 cannot you can actually look at weather 240 00:11:00,730 --> 00:10:58,940 patterns and it looks like wow it looks 241 00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:00,740 looks like somebody's stirring the 242 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,510 flatter I mean I'm sure you've seen that 243 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:04,880 they make they take weather patterns and 244 00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:06,110 they flatten the earth model and they 245 00:11:09,019 --> 00:11:06,480 show 246 00:11:14,780 --> 00:11:09,029 the weather patterns and it looks like 247 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:14,790 the Sun is basically heating up the air 248 00:11:21,199 --> 00:11:18,050 and is essentially kind of stirring the 249 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:21,209 atmosphere with motion or steering the 250 00:11:28,810 --> 00:11:25,050 lower the lower atmosphere with its with 251 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:28,820 its motion and the wetter patterns just 252 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:31,649 just it's as a shocking to see that's 253 00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:33,510 one of the you think that's some kind of 254 00:11:40,129 --> 00:11:35,190 indicates the flutter the weather 255 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:40,139 patterns well it's it's hard to say I 256 00:11:47,180 --> 00:11:44,610 mean but it it sure well it sure could 257 00:11:49,579 --> 00:11:47,190 support it if you look at these have you 258 00:11:57,620 --> 00:11:49,589 ever looked where they say like flat 259 00:12:02,329 --> 00:11:57,630 earth other patterns I guess there yeah 260 00:12:04,009 --> 00:12:02,339 I mean I don't I'm not a weather expert 261 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:04,019 you know there's these areas where it's 262 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:06,920 like wow that's that actually really 263 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:10,050 makes me think but it's like you know I 264 00:12:14,449 --> 00:12:12,569 don't know and not it but it's I miss 265 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:14,459 energy right now you're you're welcome 266 00:12:19,069 --> 00:12:17,610 to sure I mean they the big thing there 267 00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:19,079 about the weather patterns on the earth 268 00:12:24,460 --> 00:12:22,079 is that in the northern hemisphere on 269 00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:24,470 the globe the weather goes one way and 270 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:27,300 in the southern hemisphere it goes the 271 00:12:32,090 --> 00:12:29,670 other way now if the the earth was just 272 00:12:35,059 --> 00:12:32,100 a flat disc that's just you're doing 273 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:35,069 nothing just sat there or even if it's 274 00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,569 rotating then why is it different in the 275 00:12:45,550 --> 00:12:42,000 middle than it is around the edges why 276 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:45,560 is there why is there an equator at all 277 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:49,230 well you know I don't know what the to 278 00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:52,290 Flat Earth model is at all but if you go 279 00:12:59,600 --> 00:12:58,139 with this sort of first idea of this you 280 00:13:03,189 --> 00:12:59,610 know where the north poles in the center 281 00:13:10,670 --> 00:13:03,199 and the South Poles an outer circle 282 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:10,680 direction then you have the Sun circling 283 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:16,290 low and close and have which means that 284 00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:19,860 it's literally closer to the ocean and 285 00:13:25,819 --> 00:13:22,680 and along its path then it would be to 286 00:13:28,420 --> 00:13:25,829 the North Pole or to the outer edge so 287 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:28,430 you would basically get a hot circle 288 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:31,470 that would be exactly in line with the 289 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:33,540 equator you'd get you'd get exactly the 290 00:13:41,180 --> 00:13:37,170 weather that we get with a close local 291 00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:41,190 circling Sun um I just sent you the it 292 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:42,779 was just like a Google search of the 293 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:44,910 Flat Earth weather patterns and them and 294 00:13:51,319 --> 00:13:47,370 then what you also get is these sort of 295 00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:51,329 weather patterns that are a reaction to 296 00:13:58,670 --> 00:13:54,300 this close local Sun path so you get 297 00:14:02,990 --> 00:13:58,680 sort of outward spiraling of storms and 298 00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:03,000 weather that actually makes a lot of 299 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:05,880 sense where if that's what was going on 300 00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:08,670 I don't I don't claim this as a 301 00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:11,519 conclusion to that but it's amazing how 302 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:15,300 it's like wow it's amazing how you can 303 00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:18,930 fit things into into a pattern and into 304 00:14:24,110 --> 00:14:21,839 a model if you really try hard enough 305 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:24,120 of course the it raises a bunch of other 306 00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:26,010 problems like if the Sun is actually 307 00:14:30,829 --> 00:14:28,380 this thing that's rotating over the 308 00:14:33,439 --> 00:14:30,839 equator then why does it always look 309 00:14:36,259 --> 00:14:33,449 exactly the same size from wherever you 310 00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:36,269 are on the earth oh yeah people have 311 00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:38,670 done a lot of they've done a lot about 312 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:42,000 that so there are a lot of things that 313 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:43,850 people say about that and one is that 314 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:46,529 when there's moisture in the air it 315 00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:49,890 gives you an optical effect so as 316 00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:53,279 something physically recedes from your 317 00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:54,750 view the moisture in the air will 318 00:15:03,800 --> 00:14:59,130 actually magnify it in like a coinciding 319 00:15:05,420 --> 00:15:03,810 process so there's no actual model is 320 00:15:07,069 --> 00:15:05,430 the how that actually works is that 321 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:07,079 there's no actual no one's actually done 322 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:09,180 the math and saying this is this is what 323 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:10,560 actually goes on no one's done the 324 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:12,390 science no one's actually analyzed how 325 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:15,930 moisture affects things like that well I 326 00:15:20,689 --> 00:15:18,690 think it's pretty verified you can see 327 00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:20,699 that water magnifies things I mean you 328 00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:22,440 can just go in a swimming pool and then 329 00:15:25,699 --> 00:15:23,699 look at your friend your swimming and 330 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:25,709 their leg looks giant with its 331 00:15:29,769 --> 00:15:27,209 underwater as opposed to their body up 332 00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:29,779 above the water the Sun is made of water 333 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:33,510 no but the air is full of water 334 00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:36,930 we got a little droplets of doesn't 335 00:15:41,570 --> 00:15:39,180 doesn't actually magnify in the same way 336 00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:41,580 if you go if you're looking through air 337 00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:43,320 it's like as if you are actually 338 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:45,750 underwater it doesn't actually doesn't 339 00:15:51,260 --> 00:15:49,110 actually work like that well sure it's 340 00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:51,270 not you're not actually underwater but 341 00:15:58,610 --> 00:15:55,500 there is a degree of yeah I mean you 342 00:16:02,180 --> 00:15:58,620 know I mean again that way like that you 343 00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:02,190 can have optical things happen because 344 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:04,350 of things that are in the air you do 345 00:16:09,710 --> 00:16:08,010 have you do have an effect of what 346 00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:09,720 you're looking through anything you're 347 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:11,670 looking through is gonna affect what 348 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:14,940 you're seeing sure so we we know the 349 00:16:18,950 --> 00:16:16,770 effect that we know the effect that it 350 00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:18,960 has and we know the effect that the air 351 00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:21,270 has on things as you get further away 352 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:22,740 and you can kind of measure them by 353 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:23,970 looking at the effect he has some 354 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:26,850 mountains and things like that and we 355 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:29,850 here we know that he can't do what 356 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:31,500 you're describing if our understanding 357 00:16:35,660 --> 00:16:33,420 of science is correct but we do know 358 00:16:38,090 --> 00:16:35,670 that if you use the conventional model 359 00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:38,100 of the solar system with the you know 360 00:16:42,290 --> 00:16:39,840 the Sun being a big ball that's far away 361 00:16:43,930 --> 00:16:42,300 and the earth being a big ball rotates 362 00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:43,940 on its axis and rotates around the Sun 363 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:47,240 then what we see matches that perfectly 364 00:16:53,450 --> 00:16:50,730 mathematically perfectly there's no no 365 00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:53,460 error whatsoever in what what we see 366 00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:57,300 this is what what the model predicts so 367 00:17:01,100 --> 00:16:58,620 it's really curious that you know you 368 00:17:03,579 --> 00:17:01,110 you've got this other model the Flat 369 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:03,589 Earth model that doesn't make any 370 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:05,760 predictions so inserting doesn't make 371 00:17:10,699 --> 00:17:07,290 any predictions with mathematical 372 00:17:14,329 --> 00:17:10,709 certainty and yet you somehow prefer the 373 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:14,339 model that you don't even have over the 374 00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:15,990 one that actually works a hundred 375 00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:18,839 percent perfectly I mean it works in a 376 00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:20,790 certain sense and you're right it's it's 377 00:17:28,570 --> 00:17:22,980 standing up making predictions for like 378 00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:32,330 there it there are problems because when 379 00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:35,160 you go out and you photograph distances 380 00:17:40,790 --> 00:17:37,620 it doesn't match up with the expectation 381 00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:40,800 of curvature when you look to verify 382 00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:41,640 that we're spinning 383 00:17:46,810 --> 00:17:44,640 you can't verify it you can argue that 384 00:17:49,899 --> 00:17:46,820 it shouldn't be able to be verified 385 00:17:52,919 --> 00:17:49,909 we get into this you know disagree but 386 00:17:56,769 --> 00:17:52,929 so long as you're not able to verify it 387 00:18:00,430 --> 00:17:56,779 you're looking at a belief in something 388 00:18:03,639 --> 00:18:00,440 that you can't prove you're looking at 389 00:18:05,499 --> 00:18:03,649 something that matches a model perfectly 390 00:18:08,379 --> 00:18:05,509 with mathematical precision like the way 391 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:08,389 the Sun rises and the moon and the stars 392 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:11,600 I could do that I could do that with 393 00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:13,700 most religions I could go out and tell 394 00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:15,980 you that you know a God created this 395 00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:18,380 place and he wanted the birds to be 396 00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:21,200 beautiful and he wanted the Sun to rise 397 00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:24,200 every day and it's actually a goddess 398 00:18:28,210 --> 00:18:26,870 and a chariot or Dever and it will keep 399 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:28,220 rising every day because she likes 400 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:30,049 getting up in the morning and then I 401 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:32,360 will exactly tell you what to predict 402 00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:34,730 and I just did it perfectly I did how 403 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:36,289 would you and prediction there how would 404 00:18:43,899 --> 00:18:40,610 you predict the eclipses and I could 405 00:18:46,539 --> 00:18:43,909 just come up with some religious story 406 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:46,549 that's not a Schindler that wouldn't 407 00:18:50,889 --> 00:18:48,470 tell me you know what will happen in the 408 00:18:52,990 --> 00:18:50,899 future like if I give you the positions 409 00:18:57,970 --> 00:18:53,000 of some stars and what not how do you 410 00:18:59,860 --> 00:18:57,980 predict their paths across the sky well 411 00:19:02,799 --> 00:18:59,870 people were predicting the path 412 00:19:05,619 --> 00:19:02,809 throughout the sky long before they were 413 00:19:08,289 --> 00:19:05,629 using the globe model so I don't know 414 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:08,299 how they did it and I couldn't do it 415 00:19:12,639 --> 00:19:10,250 myself but I know that it was being done 416 00:19:15,659 --> 00:19:12,649 so I know the globe bottle is not 417 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:15,669 required to be able to predict celestial 418 00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:19,250 you know occurrences at all I think it 419 00:19:24,340 --> 00:19:21,230 is actually I think you will find it and 420 00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,350 they do actually the accurate paths of 421 00:19:28,629 --> 00:19:26,720 the sky of the stars can only really 422 00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:28,639 work on a globe model if you want if you 423 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:29,960 want to make a mathematical model that 424 00:19:35,409 --> 00:19:32,210 shows you where the stars will be in any 425 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:35,419 one day there's a very simple one which 426 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:38,090 is globe model and the stars are very 427 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:40,490 very far away essentially on what we 428 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:42,289 call the celestial sphere this this is a 429 00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:46,370 very simple thing each star simply has 430 00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:47,990 two coordinates you know these things 431 00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:50,240 called polar coordinates like these how 432 00:19:54,460 --> 00:19:52,039 far around it is and how far up it is 433 00:19:56,919 --> 00:19:54,470 it's all it has and from those 434 00:19:58,659 --> 00:19:56,929 coordinates you can predict its path 435 00:20:00,700 --> 00:19:58,669 across the sky and it's really really 436 00:20:03,399 --> 00:20:00,710 simple it's trivial 437 00:20:06,169 --> 00:20:03,409 and it works perfectly and with with 438 00:20:08,299 --> 00:20:06,179 incredible position they can you can get 439 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:08,309 telescopes and automatically zoom into 440 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:09,690 where stars are going to be and the 441 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:11,730 telescopes using a mathematical model 442 00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:13,980 inside it that is based on the globe 443 00:20:20,509 --> 00:20:17,609 model so it all works based on the globe 444 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:20,519 there is no other model in which it 445 00:20:28,009 --> 00:20:24,450 works I mean it well it's just not true 446 00:20:32,109 --> 00:20:28,019 there's so many former belief systems 447 00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:32,119 that made all sorts of astrological 448 00:20:37,099 --> 00:20:34,409 predictions and they didn't use the 449 00:20:39,499 --> 00:20:37,109 globe well let me just stick with 450 00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:39,509 something very simple like one style is 451 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:43,440 pick one star like Sirius and say where 452 00:20:45,739 --> 00:20:44,609 is it going to be at any particular 453 00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:45,749 point in time 454 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:51,600 none of those old systems could predict 455 00:20:54,919 --> 00:20:53,190 that that's just saying is carried by 456 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:54,929 carriers into the sky doesn't predict 457 00:20:57,950 --> 00:20:56,820 where it's going to be but if you want 458 00:21:00,889 --> 00:20:57,960 to figure out where it's going to be at 459 00:21:03,739 --> 00:21:00,899 like say 12 o'clock tonight we can do 460 00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:03,749 that all right shades in the sky I 461 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:07,679 wasn't afraid to this specific I was 462 00:21:16,369 --> 00:21:14,129 just making that up right this is we're 463 00:21:21,139 --> 00:21:16,379 getting engineer that's not my expertise 464 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:21,149 I haven't studied theology so I can't I 465 00:21:25,729 --> 00:21:23,730 can't represent them justly they need 466 00:21:28,299 --> 00:21:25,739 somebody else who study them right I 467 00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:28,309 just I know that I know that these days 468 00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:32,100 I mean to come and pay the globe model 469 00:21:37,099 --> 00:21:34,950 is the only one that's it is the it is 470 00:21:40,849 --> 00:21:37,109 the only one that actually accurately 471 00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:40,859 predicts the paths of the stars is to 472 00:21:45,499 --> 00:21:42,600 assume that we are in the center of a 473 00:21:48,859 --> 00:21:45,509 celestial sphere you could argue that is 474 00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:48,869 not a no you don't to be on a globe for 475 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:51,389 that to work but then why is it the same 476 00:21:56,749 --> 00:21:54,720 from every point on the earth why why 477 00:21:59,409 --> 00:21:56,759 why does why do things why can we see 478 00:22:02,570 --> 00:21:59,419 southern constellations from South 479 00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,580 America and from Australia at the same 480 00:22:06,649 --> 00:22:05,039 time and they both look the same when if 481 00:22:08,779 --> 00:22:06,659 the earth was flat they would be on 482 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,789 opposite sides of the earth you know 483 00:22:11,659 --> 00:22:10,320 these things it get increasingly 484 00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,669 ridiculous as you get further and 485 00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:13,200 further away from the North Pole and 486 00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:13,830 further to 487 00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:16,470 the South Pole and you have to have this 488 00:22:20,539 --> 00:22:18,539 incredible stretching of reality for it 489 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:20,549 to work on a flat earth but you have 490 00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:23,460 nothing to do on the globe earth because 491 00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:25,260 he just works it's just the paths of the 492 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:27,539 stars in the southern hemisphere work 493 00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:30,260 out perfectly it's trivial almost I 494 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:33,600 would say that this is there are a lot 495 00:22:39,529 --> 00:22:36,570 of people who study the stars in 496 00:22:41,470 --> 00:22:39,539 relation to flatter a lot like really 497 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:41,480 extensively and you should definitely 498 00:22:46,129 --> 00:22:44,250 reach out to them because it's just it's 499 00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:46,139 like it's just not my expertise 500 00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,289 whatsoever so it's just it's not fair 501 00:22:54,049 --> 00:22:51,539 for me to represent that side of the 502 00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:54,059 conversation since I have only like 503 00:22:59,899 --> 00:22:58,559 athing knowledge of it but I do know 504 00:23:02,169 --> 00:22:59,909 that there are people who would love 505 00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:02,179 love to have an in-depth conversation 506 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:08,700 some of my way okay I will yeah let's 507 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:10,830 let's talk about something else like for 508 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:17,130 a bit at the coronavirus has that change 509 00:23:25,159 --> 00:23:20,610 your view of the world at all do you 510 00:23:28,009 --> 00:23:25,169 feel like the world is changing in a way 511 00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:28,019 that changes your perception of how the 512 00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:32,220 world operates at all change my 513 00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:34,820 perception of how the world operates 514 00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:37,860 because I talked to you last time and we 515 00:23:41,810 --> 00:23:39,929 talked a little bit about like if the 516 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:41,820 world is flat would there have to be 517 00:23:47,299 --> 00:23:44,850 some kind of big conspiracy to cover it 518 00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:47,309 up or is it just the scientists making 519 00:23:52,879 --> 00:23:48,840 mistakes and you know you didn't really 520 00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,889 know at the time but do you think let's 521 00:23:58,759 --> 00:23:55,440 just just address the coronavirus do you 522 00:24:02,220 --> 00:23:58,769 think that there's more to it than the 523 00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:07,870 all the media is giving us do I think 524 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:10,220 there's more to it what do you think can 525 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:12,170 I ask you first what is your what is 526 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:14,540 your opinion let's bring on I I don't 527 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:16,730 think there's much more to it I think 528 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,410 you know depends which media you look at 529 00:24:22,030 --> 00:24:20,480 if you look at Fox News initially they 530 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:22,040 tried to downplay it a bit and then they 531 00:24:27,810 --> 00:24:24,530 try to play the government's response 532 00:24:31,570 --> 00:24:27,820 but I think overall basically it's a 533 00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:31,580 about pandemic and thousands of people 534 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:36,590 are dying and it is it is a corona virus 535 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:37,760 that's impacting people and making 536 00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:39,710 people sick so I think it is as the 537 00:24:46,810 --> 00:24:43,190 media presents a seven do you how do you 538 00:24:50,050 --> 00:24:46,820 feel how do you feel about just you know 539 00:24:52,150 --> 00:24:50,060 all the changes in the laws and how are 540 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:52,160 being required to give up in your 541 00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,370 employment and how do you feel about all 542 00:25:00,940 --> 00:24:57,520 the changes that are being done in 543 00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:00,950 reactions I think I think they're 544 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:04,070 necessary changes based on the science 545 00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:06,650 of pandemics and the you know we know 546 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:08,840 what happens if you do nothing and you 547 00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:10,490 know we know how rapidly the disease 548 00:25:18,190 --> 00:25:14,300 spreads so we we need to do things to 549 00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:18,200 avoid millions of people dying if we did 550 00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:20,240 nothing the prediction is that millions 551 00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,310 of people would die you know I've 552 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:24,080 already you know I know people like 553 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:26,810 friends of friends who have died already 554 00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:28,370 and you see you know famous people 555 00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:30,830 vaguely famous people who have catching 556 00:25:35,860 --> 00:25:32,960 it and dying so I mean it is it is a 557 00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:35,870 real thing that is actually happening I 558 00:25:39,660 --> 00:25:38,030 don't think that that just by making a 559 00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:39,670 stay at home just because they want 560 00:25:45,310 --> 00:25:43,280 controllers maybe maybe there might be 561 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:45,320 something that comes out of it which is 562 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:46,850 negative and that they don't give up 563 00:25:50,140 --> 00:25:48,410 some of the power but I don't I think 564 00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:50,150 that's very much a real reason for 565 00:25:57,370 --> 00:25:56,000 people to do things for really and what 566 00:25:59,890 --> 00:25:57,380 do you and just what do you think about 567 00:26:03,180 --> 00:25:59,900 that like if you just said a really 568 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:03,190 interesting sentence like if they I 569 00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:07,810 don't want to put something about them 570 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:11,270 yeah like so what do you mean like what 571 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:14,450 do you mean by that well historically 572 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:15,350 when the 573 00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:18,050 takes power for some reason because of 574 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:20,660 some crisis they're slow to give that 575 00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:26,330 power up and so if they put new you new 576 00:26:32,830 --> 00:26:28,910 laws into place to give them greater 577 00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:32,840 surveillance rights then they might not 578 00:26:37,270 --> 00:26:35,990 give up those laws afterwards so that's 579 00:26:40,540 --> 00:26:37,280 something I think we need to be vigilant 580 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:40,550 about and insists that they do and not 581 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:41,840 vote for the people who want to keep 582 00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:44,090 those laws because they could put laws 583 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:47,060 in place that say they would they would 584 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:48,710 track people's cell phones or something 585 00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:51,050 like that because they need to do it to 586 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:53,870 track the spread of the disease and then 587 00:26:57,910 --> 00:26:55,490 keep tracking people's cell phones 588 00:26:59,710 --> 00:26:57,920 afterwards which is something you don't 589 00:27:02,110 --> 00:26:59,720 want but something that I think we need 590 00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:02,120 to be concerned about but you know my 591 00:27:05,650 --> 00:27:04,160 question for you was more do you think 592 00:27:10,150 --> 00:27:05,660 that there are things that are being 593 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:10,160 done now that is in some ways a power 594 00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:17,930 grab sure yeah I mean at any time you 595 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:21,940 tell people they have to do things 596 00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:28,010 they're taking power they have to do it 597 00:27:32,410 --> 00:27:30,320 though that they have to do now like if 598 00:27:34,330 --> 00:27:32,420 we have to go into lockdown we have to 599 00:27:36,790 --> 00:27:34,340 close the schools we have to tell people 600 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:36,800 not to me to meet with other people and 601 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:39,050 we we have to you know make businesses 602 00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:41,090 close if this is something that has to 603 00:27:48,130 --> 00:27:46,700 be done for health reasons do you think 604 00:27:49,930 --> 00:27:48,140 that those people just simply taking 605 00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:49,940 advantage of that right now or do you 606 00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:52,190 think do you feel like the reaction is 607 00:27:55,930 --> 00:27:54,260 out of proportion to the disease and 608 00:27:57,790 --> 00:27:55,940 that's these some of these things 609 00:28:02,880 --> 00:27:57,800 unnecessarily and they're just being 610 00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:02,890 done for power grab reasons I think that 611 00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:08,950 my ability to analyze what's going on 612 00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:14,660 has been all but eliminated by the very 613 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:18,910 fact that I can't go outside mm-hmm so I 614 00:28:23,710 --> 00:28:23,330 think that the real answer is how would 615 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:23,720 I know 616 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:25,370 how would you know I mean you couldn't 617 00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:27,710 go and hug a bunch of people and see if 618 00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:28,740 you get sick I mean 619 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:30,030 isn't something you would want to try 620 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:34,770 and do anyway is it says it's not and I 621 00:28:41,540 --> 00:28:38,370 respect other people's fear so I 622 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:41,550 wouldn't and why would I go experiment 623 00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:43,290 with that yeah I'm not gonna freak 624 00:28:49,910 --> 00:28:46,740 people no no they would you safe you 625 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:49,920 could go outside or what experiments 626 00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:52,500 would you do if you were just given free 627 00:28:57,230 --> 00:28:55,080 rein to go around and you know wear a 628 00:28:59,090 --> 00:28:57,240 mask or whatever but go around and look 629 00:29:01,490 --> 00:28:59,100 what would you go and look to see if 630 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:01,500 there things were as they're being told 631 00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:07,010 us would you go to the hospitals and 632 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:25,299 territory because I see the story about 633 00:29:36,669 --> 00:29:29,330 people who are questioning this being 634 00:29:43,850 --> 00:29:36,679 immediately painted as dangerous and 635 00:29:46,419 --> 00:29:43,860 that's coming out like in neon like the 636 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,429 very ice I saw that there was a movement 637 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:49,380 about people going to hospitals and 638 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:53,130 filming ar-ar-ar these particular 639 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:55,050 hospitals that are being said to be 640 00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:58,050 overflowed with patients or they really 641 00:30:02,080 --> 00:29:59,490 overflowed and people are going and 642 00:30:05,150 --> 00:30:02,090 there's this whole movement about that 643 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:05,160 so I noticed move in I noticed some of 644 00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:07,650 these videos people doing that and 645 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:10,230 within about a day there were articles 646 00:30:20,890 --> 00:30:16,650 coming out calling calling them [\h__\h] 647 00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:20,900 like that and calling them dangerous and 648 00:30:27,919 --> 00:30:23,550 calling them you know deniers of the 649 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:27,929 disease and calling them like I think 650 00:30:33,169 --> 00:30:30,210 citizen journalists was a term that was 651 00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,179 used but it was it was used as if these 652 00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,520 are the new the new threat of people the 653 00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:37,919 new bad people are trying to be citizen 654 00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:42,240 journalists now I don't think 655 00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:46,740 that'd be I don't think that's right I 656 00:30:53,749 --> 00:30:50,369 don't think that it's healthy to come to 657 00:30:57,889 --> 00:30:53,759 a place where people seeking to verify 658 00:31:01,009 --> 00:30:57,899 that for themselves are vilified as the 659 00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,019 enemy now does that mean that the 660 00:31:06,859 --> 00:31:03,360 official story is true or not it doesn't 661 00:31:12,259 --> 00:31:06,869 it doesn't mean that but it means that 662 00:31:14,629 --> 00:31:12,269 people are losing a sense of safety to 663 00:31:19,129 --> 00:31:14,639 have an open dialogue or to seek to 664 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:19,139 verify or to right or wrong express 665 00:31:24,499 --> 00:31:21,570 their opinion publicly what if people 666 00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:24,509 are promoting the idea that the 667 00:31:33,019 --> 00:31:27,899 coronaviruses say a hoax wait actually 668 00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,029 isn't and that makes people do things 669 00:31:37,730 --> 00:31:36,240 like I don't know go to go to some choir 670 00:31:40,609 --> 00:31:37,740 practice or something that they wouldn't 671 00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:40,619 normally do and then they get sick it 672 00:31:45,289 --> 00:31:42,649 seems like there's a big problem with 673 00:31:48,049 --> 00:31:45,299 it's the disease spreading because 674 00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:48,059 people are being in close proximity to 675 00:31:51,859 --> 00:31:49,679 other people and if a lot of people 676 00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:51,869 start thinking that it's a hoax 677 00:31:57,580 --> 00:31:54,779 isn't that a dangerous thing you think 678 00:32:02,210 --> 00:31:57,590 there is there's some some need for 679 00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:02,220 caution and perhaps even criticizing 680 00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,710 people I think right now there's an 681 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:06,960 incredible need for caution on all 682 00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:09,710 fronts you know it's just there's a 683 00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:12,480 there's a balance I mean the word you 684 00:32:21,019 --> 00:32:17,519 just used has become a dirty word like a 685 00:32:27,049 --> 00:32:21,029 like it's and I don't know that it's the 686 00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:27,059 correct word either I don't now is Hoa 687 00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:31,470 eggs I don't think that it's that simple 688 00:32:37,639 --> 00:32:34,830 I don't um I don't think it's that 689 00:32:41,629 --> 00:32:37,649 simple I think that people are getting 690 00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:41,639 sick I think that people I think that I 691 00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:49,919 think there's this question about how do 692 00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:53,580 you even what is even a safe way to 693 00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:55,800 question right now yeah 694 00:33:00,530 --> 00:32:57,960 obviously what is a for it a question 695 00:33:03,410 --> 00:33:00,540 what is I guess like what what it's not 696 00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:03,420 like what is a safe way to question like 697 00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:05,220 if we could I mean obviously you feel 698 00:33:10,970 --> 00:33:07,620 worried that people will criticize you 699 00:33:12,590 --> 00:33:10,980 or even attack you if you if you express 700 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:12,600 questions because they donate to other 701 00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:17,850 people but I guess what from your 702 00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:21,750 perspective how how would you be 703 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:24,960 persuaded that it is as it appears to be 704 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:27,330 what what more should have be done by 705 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:29,250 the authorities to make it clear that 706 00:33:51,380 --> 00:33:46,580 unnecessary goal hmm you know I don't 707 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:51,390 like I mean I think you're you're 708 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:53,250 presuming the way you're talking is 709 00:33:58,130 --> 00:33:54,810 you're presuming I don't believe in it 710 00:34:00,110 --> 00:33:58,140 there's some presuming you have some 711 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:00,120 questions because she said like your 712 00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:03,930 your ability to to investigate or ask 713 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:05,070 questions I'm not sure what you said 714 00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:07,050 your ability as being curtailed because 715 00:34:11,870 --> 00:34:09,510 you can't go out so I was wondering if 716 00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:11,880 he could go out what would be the 717 00:34:15,110 --> 00:34:13,320 information you'd be looking for that 718 00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:15,120 perhaps could have been supplied to you 719 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:16,080 in some other way 720 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:21,330 well I have my closest friend is a nurse 721 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:24,570 practitioner and she works in urgent 722 00:34:31,850 --> 00:34:28,710 care and I have a close relative who 723 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:31,860 lives in Seattle like near the epicenter 724 00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:37,350 of a stop call it yeah I have no friends 725 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:39,720 in various places and I guess I've been 726 00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:44,130 checking up with like with my friend who 727 00:34:50,300 --> 00:34:48,540 works in a clinic my nurse friend you 728 00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:50,310 know from the beginning I was like tell 729 00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:53,070 me tell me if you get booked for you 730 00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:56,730 know concerned about her and I I want to 731 00:35:01,580 --> 00:34:59,040 know do you see have you seen any 732 00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:01,590 patients with this diagnosis you know 733 00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:04,380 that's there's always something to ask 734 00:35:11,490 --> 00:35:09,070 every time we check in and first 735 00:35:13,350 --> 00:35:11,500 time we talked about it she she told me 736 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:13,360 that she doesn't have they haven't been 737 00:35:18,270 --> 00:35:15,850 given any protocol for how to handle it 738 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:18,280 if they do get one and they weren't 739 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:20,800 given any masks she had to Bayern Mass 740 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:23,530 and bring it you know to this day she 741 00:35:27,180 --> 00:35:25,450 said there's been people with some 742 00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:27,190 slight fever and some coughing so 743 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:29,350 there's like it's like maybe but they 744 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:31,210 haven't had anybody that they can verify 745 00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:35,050 would for sure habit or whatever asked 746 00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:37,660 about the kids the testing kit and they 747 00:35:43,170 --> 00:35:41,260 didn't get me and III just asking her 748 00:35:44,970 --> 00:35:43,180 about what the testing kit because I'm 749 00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:44,980 not a medical professional so I was like 750 00:35:51,930 --> 00:35:49,180 what what are you getting like what do 751 00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:51,940 you think this kit is demonstrating like 752 00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:54,400 how do you how would you use one like 753 00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:58,480 basically like I was asking as a doctor 754 00:36:02,300 --> 00:35:59,710 because she basically takes on the role 755 00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:02,310 of a doctor but I do miss petitioners 756 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:05,920 practically doctors yes as a doctor as a 757 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:10,170 nurse like you know generally you can 758 00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:12,310 diagnose people like you can either 759 00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:15,220 diagnose them in in the room when they 760 00:36:19,890 --> 00:36:17,950 come in or you do your lab work and you 761 00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:19,900 can you know diagnose something that but 762 00:36:24,290 --> 00:36:21,220 you know what to look for you know what 763 00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:24,300 what results you're looking at and um 764 00:36:30,030 --> 00:36:26,590 she said yeah and she's like yeah if 765 00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:30,040 somebody has something generally she has 766 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:32,380 the capacity to diagnose it but she does 767 00:36:36,420 --> 00:36:34,570 not have that capacity with this like 768 00:36:40,050 --> 00:36:36,430 she wouldn't she wouldn't have that 769 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:40,060 power to diagnose and like there if they 770 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:41,650 did a test kit it wouldn't go like to 771 00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:44,650 their lab there's like I don't know if 772 00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:46,150 I'd places that they're being sent off 773 00:36:54,810 --> 00:36:50,790 to rid of her so there was a lack of 774 00:36:57,810 --> 00:36:54,820 power to know you know I'm asking 775 00:37:01,620 --> 00:36:57,820 somebody who's doctor basically who's my 776 00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:01,630 very close friend how is this being 777 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:04,540 verified and she didn't say oh it's you 778 00:37:10,050 --> 00:37:07,390 know I can't she was like it said like 779 00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:10,060 it I don't we don't get to verify it we 780 00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:11,440 don't have that they're not giving us 781 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:12,190 that power 782 00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:16,090 so um what does that mean I don't know 783 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:19,300 it Jeff but it is you know what do you 784 00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:20,650 do that I don't know so 785 00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:25,720 and you know I look up other information 786 00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:28,420 and there seems to definitely be such a 787 00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:30,369 thing as coronavirus like this is like a 788 00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,710 known thing that's been around for a 789 00:37:39,450 --> 00:37:34,240 long time mm-hmm 790 00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:39,460 and so you know you can't it be pretty 791 00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:41,200 much a stretch to say there's no such 792 00:37:47,370 --> 00:37:44,529 thing as a corona virus but um I don't 793 00:37:54,839 --> 00:37:47,380 take it lightly like I know that getting 794 00:38:01,760 --> 00:37:54,849 sick is horrible so yeah I don't you 795 00:38:08,339 --> 00:38:01,770 know I don't know I don't know I don't 796 00:38:16,109 --> 00:38:08,349 look that I have the information to know 797 00:38:20,549 --> 00:38:16,119 I think it's there's a lot of I can see 798 00:38:23,339 --> 00:38:20,559 it people are being well they certainly 799 00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:23,349 be encouraged to take exactly what they 800 00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:24,760 news the same for baby that's the main 801 00:38:34,890 --> 00:38:28,240 that's the main push but I also can see 802 00:38:37,529 --> 00:38:34,900 that there are there is a sort of side 803 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:37,539 push that maybe just controlled ah maybe 804 00:38:44,339 --> 00:38:41,410 just people out to sort of rabble 805 00:38:47,370 --> 00:38:44,349 rousers encouraging people to say it's 806 00:38:51,359 --> 00:38:47,380 not it's not something to be worried 807 00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:51,369 about and I don't think and I think that 808 00:39:01,890 --> 00:38:55,180 there it's I think that that is there to 809 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:01,900 vilify any form of questioning I see 810 00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:07,210 that really clearly actually so do you 811 00:39:15,539 --> 00:39:11,460 think that they've created this this 812 00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:15,549 questioning environment specifically so 813 00:39:22,799 --> 00:39:17,529 they can attack people who ask questions 814 00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:22,809 I don't know that it's like for that but 815 00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:27,220 it seems to be um something that's going 816 00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:30,190 on yeah I mean just like you were saying 817 00:39:35,010 --> 00:39:31,900 about power you know they're taking 818 00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:35,020 power I think that that's one 819 00:39:39,090 --> 00:39:37,150 one of the ways they're taking power and 820 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:39,100 they're making it really scary you know 821 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:43,270 they're saying like if I mean yeah I 822 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:46,450 mean she's you know like it's like for 823 00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,850 your the position you're taking 824 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:51,280 you can talk day and day out about it 825 00:39:55,950 --> 00:39:53,530 publicly you're just fine I'm not even 826 00:39:59,040 --> 00:39:55,960 taking a position I'm saying I don't 827 00:40:04,740 --> 00:39:59,050 have the freedom to know or to ask 828 00:40:07,340 --> 00:40:04,750 questions and in that like that's that's 829 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:07,350 a that's a paragraph you know I don't 830 00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:14,530 have the luxury of saying much of 831 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:17,860 anything really it is there are quite a 832 00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:20,170 lot of questions being asked like if you 833 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:22,390 think like say the the issue with face 834 00:40:27,390 --> 00:40:24,850 masks things have changed over the last 835 00:40:29,580 --> 00:40:27,400 like week or so with people's the 836 00:40:31,110 --> 00:40:29,590 officials opinion about face Max and 837 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:31,120 part of that has come from people 838 00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:35,260 questioning the official you know advice 839 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:39,070 not to use face masks so in that sense 840 00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:41,590 there is something that was questioned 841 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:43,540 some official thing there was questioned 842 00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:45,250 and enough people questioned it and then 843 00:40:49,170 --> 00:40:47,440 they figured out that you know perhaps 844 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:49,180 their original advice wasn't the best 845 00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:51,490 advice or at least not at this time and 846 00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:53,620 they changed it and I don't people 847 00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:55,720 weren't really vilified for questioning 848 00:41:03,990 --> 00:40:58,720 like is he's wearing face masks a good 849 00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:04,000 thing or not awesome I didn't see that I 850 00:41:09,150 --> 00:41:06,220 don't um but maybe you're correct about 851 00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:09,160 that um I don't know you know it's like 852 00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:13,870 it's just it's a new day and I think 853 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:16,720 that you know I've been thinking a lot 854 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:20,290 about that cos there's a poem about like 855 00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:22,990 the rise of the Nazi Germany or it's 856 00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:24,910 like first they came for them I did 857 00:41:29,490 --> 00:41:26,590 nothing and then they came for them and 858 00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:29,500 I think that that's what this feels like 859 00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:35,020 to me is they are there there is a 860 00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:40,270 feeling of there's there's vilification 861 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:43,780 of questioning and and that's you know 862 00:41:48,539 --> 00:41:46,450 if you think well if you questioned the 863 00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:48,549 virus you could be encouraging 864 00:41:54,779 --> 00:41:51,670 able to go out and smooch other's faces 865 00:41:56,370 --> 00:41:54,789 and then we're gonna be sick and so it's 866 00:41:57,929 --> 00:41:56,380 like well maybe that's good you can't 867 00:41:59,609 --> 00:41:57,939 question rice and it's like well there 868 00:42:06,239 --> 00:41:59,619 is a certain logic to that and that 869 00:42:08,819 --> 00:42:06,249 might be yeah but but that is also a 870 00:42:11,249 --> 00:42:08,829 power that you're surrendering which is 871 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:11,259 the right to question and that may not 872 00:42:17,849 --> 00:42:14,650 be a power that is given back and it may 873 00:42:20,479 --> 00:42:17,859 come around to a place where you can't 874 00:42:23,279 --> 00:42:20,489 ask a question that you want to ask and 875 00:42:27,569 --> 00:42:23,289 somebody else may be rationalizing that 876 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:27,579 your question is too dangerous and you 877 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:30,130 know I support your right to say we live 878 00:42:34,259 --> 00:42:31,660 in a globe I support you right to say 879 00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:34,269 anything really and I think this is the 880 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:37,420 time for people to reflect can they 881 00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:41,890 support a free discourse because we are 882 00:42:45,059 --> 00:42:43,630 losing the right to have free discourse 883 00:42:48,449 --> 00:42:45,069 right now we are losing the feeling of 884 00:42:50,759 --> 00:42:48,459 safety discourse if there is there is I 885 00:42:53,370 --> 00:42:50,769 think oh is going to be a line that 886 00:42:55,289 --> 00:42:53,380 needs to be drawn at some point with 887 00:42:58,259 --> 00:42:55,299 free discourse like if somebody is 888 00:43:00,809 --> 00:42:58,269 telling people to drink poison because 889 00:43:03,209 --> 00:43:00,819 it will cure something you know some 890 00:43:05,759 --> 00:43:03,219 toxic system systems substance like that 891 00:43:07,049 --> 00:43:05,769 or they're advertising one thing but 892 00:43:08,669 --> 00:43:07,059 selling something completely different 893 00:43:11,039 --> 00:43:08,679 there's some actually it's harmful 894 00:43:12,779 --> 00:43:11,049 doesn't work or they they're selling 895 00:43:15,269 --> 00:43:12,789 fire extinguishers that don't have any 896 00:43:21,749 --> 00:43:15,279 fire extinguishes stuff in them if if if 897 00:43:23,759 --> 00:43:21,759 the we have to have some limits to our 898 00:43:27,299 --> 00:43:23,769 lines I would never cross yeah it is 899 00:43:28,829 --> 00:43:27,309 moving the line is moving some news out 900 00:43:31,049 --> 00:43:28,839 there saying that you know it's okay to 901 00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:31,059 murder people I'd say no no it's not you 902 00:43:35,609 --> 00:43:34,089 step back somebody said racism was okay 903 00:43:39,179 --> 00:43:35,619 or child abuse was okay like no 904 00:43:44,999 --> 00:43:39,189 absolutely there are lines but it's like 905 00:43:47,609 --> 00:43:45,009 if you want to go it's there mmm it's 906 00:43:49,469 --> 00:43:47,619 really it's where do you draw the like 907 00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:49,479 how do you decide where the line is 908 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:51,670 drawn and the line always gets drawn in 909 00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:53,410 an area that's fuzzy because you can't 910 00:43:57,929 --> 00:43:55,569 there isn't a clear-cut division between 911 00:43:59,309 --> 00:43:57,939 one thing or the other so there's always 912 00:44:01,840 --> 00:43:59,319 gonna be some people that I'll say the 913 00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:01,850 lines should be that way or that way 914 00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:05,270 there is a lack of respect for the 915 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:08,030 general populace that is absolutely 916 00:44:14,170 --> 00:44:10,730 absolutely going on the media is 917 00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:14,180 treating people like prisoners later 918 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:15,680 because they're saying I mean they're 919 00:44:20,980 --> 00:44:19,490 using the dialogue the vocabulary 920 00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:20,990 they're saying lockdown this is a 921 00:44:28,060 --> 00:44:25,070 psychology of prisoners and and they're 922 00:44:29,830 --> 00:44:28,070 this this whole idea of like well we're 923 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:29,840 releasing the National Guard but don't 924 00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:32,090 worry they're just there to be nice for 925 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:36,470 now there's there's this taunting of the 926 00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:40,010 people that the people must stay in line 927 00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:43,550 or you know or what you know you don't 928 00:44:49,810 --> 00:44:46,310 know but they're this this is a 929 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:49,820 psychology of control it's a psychology 930 00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,850 of taking power and does it mean that 931 00:45:00,220 --> 00:44:55,760 the emergency is not an emergency no it 932 00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:00,230 doesn't mean that but but it but but it 933 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:03,830 is it is a paragraph it's absolutely a 934 00:45:11,830 --> 00:45:06,310 paragraph and here's his a power a 935 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:11,840 problem with the power grab is the world 936 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:14,210 is full of intelligent people the world 937 00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:16,250 is full of goofy people with terrible 938 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:18,560 ideas but it is also full of intelligent 939 00:45:24,460 --> 00:45:22,160 people it is very possible that there 940 00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:24,470 are people who could devise a better 941 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:27,710 plan for dealing with this crisis then 942 00:45:33,790 --> 00:45:29,530 the plan that is being implemented 943 00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:33,800 you're asking people everywhere to give 944 00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:35,000 up their livelihood 945 00:45:41,350 --> 00:45:37,750 you're asking people to just submit 946 00:45:43,540 --> 00:45:41,360 submit on a spiritual level really right 947 00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:43,550 now just just say okay I don't know 948 00:45:48,190 --> 00:45:46,550 better you tell me what to do you're 949 00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:48,200 asking people to not know how to pay 950 00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:50,240 their rent you're asking people to in 951 00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:52,400 many cases not know where they're 952 00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:54,800 getting it how to have enough money to 953 00:46:04,510 --> 00:45:57,530 get food very soon you're asking people 954 00:46:06,610 --> 00:46:04,520 to do to just be quiet and hide away and 955 00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:06,620 to stop socializing to stop having 956 00:46:11,290 --> 00:46:09,710 conversations to surrender all sorts of 957 00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:11,300 things that generally support their 958 00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:12,920 health and generally support their 959 00:46:15,850 --> 00:46:15,020 mental health you asked me will give all 960 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:15,860 that 961 00:46:22,460 --> 00:46:19,530 because government knows best now 962 00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:22,470 there's the possibility that the people 963 00:46:28,010 --> 00:46:25,230 could know better the people could think 964 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:28,020 of a different plan or a better plan if 965 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:32,160 they are given the freedom to assess the 966 00:46:39,610 --> 00:46:35,310 information to have free discourse to 967 00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:39,620 safely say wait is this the best plan 968 00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:43,260 can we take care of our people's health 969 00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:45,710 and also take care of our economy 970 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:50,220 yeah but how how are you going to get to 971 00:46:57,230 --> 00:46:53,250 that from here like we're in a situation 972 00:46:59,840 --> 00:46:57,240 where you in you got like two months or 973 00:47:01,580 --> 00:46:59,850 something in which to act what do you 974 00:47:03,950 --> 00:47:01,590 actually do how do you can't just say 975 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:03,960 okay people you figure it out you know 976 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:05,490 there's this deadly disease coming and 977 00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:07,650 okay so other people will say oh no 978 00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:08,070 there isn't 979 00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:11,310 and then people will just act as normal 980 00:47:15,110 --> 00:47:14,700 they're not going to do anything one or 981 00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:15,120 the other 982 00:47:20,660 --> 00:47:17,400 I mean does it does it have to be one of 983 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:20,670 the other like to say this plan might 984 00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,730 not be the best plan for everybody does 985 00:47:27,710 --> 00:47:25,920 that have to mean that you're throwing 986 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:27,720 the baby out with the bathwater and 987 00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:30,570 you're saying there's no problem I think 988 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:35,040 there is certainly alternative plans but 989 00:47:39,260 --> 00:47:37,410 it's it isn't it certainly doesn't have 990 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:39,270 to be completely lock down versus 991 00:47:47,740 --> 00:47:43,050 complete freedom there could be things 992 00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,750 in Bangui I have a close friend who um 993 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:49,920 he called me up there named he's got 994 00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:54,090 he's got health issues his diabetes and 995 00:47:59,600 --> 00:47:57,170 like some related stuff and he was um 996 00:48:00,860 --> 00:47:59,610 he's very he said he was very ill he 997 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:00,870 hadn't be able to get out of bed for 998 00:48:05,060 --> 00:48:02,610 like four days and he was having a lot 999 00:48:08,330 --> 00:48:05,070 of trouble breathing and he went to the 1000 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:08,340 ER this was like new three nights ago he 1001 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:14,250 went to the ER and um they did don't 1002 00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:19,170 test him Covina or Corona so where's my 1003 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:22,590 did not test him for Kona and they 1004 00:48:28,620 --> 00:48:26,850 wouldn't put him into the ER and he you 1005 00:48:29,970 --> 00:48:28,630 know he was like begging them to 1006 00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:29,980 they said well you don't want to go in 1007 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:33,790 there mix with the other patients and he 1008 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:37,450 um he asked him if they actually had any 1009 00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:39,190 grown-up patients at the time and they 1010 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:43,900 said no but you can't go in there and he 1011 00:48:48,540 --> 00:48:46,450 actually he had some kind of like acid 1012 00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:48,550 dose like diabetic acidosis thing that 1013 00:48:52,650 --> 00:48:50,710 was giving him making him unable to 1014 00:48:53,730 --> 00:48:52,660 breathe I guess he had to go back to 1015 00:48:56,070 --> 00:48:53,740 several er's 1016 00:48:58,260 --> 00:48:56,080 over the next few days to try to get 1017 00:48:59,640 --> 00:48:58,270 treatment he said that normally if he 1018 00:49:02,070 --> 00:48:59,650 would have been sick like that they 1019 00:49:04,650 --> 00:49:02,080 would have put him in to a room in the 1020 00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:04,660 ER and put him on an IV and they kept 1021 00:49:08,850 --> 00:49:05,830 him there for a few days until he 1022 00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:08,860 leveled off but that he he felt like 1023 00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:10,480 they were like came near kill him 1024 00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:12,520 because they'd wouldn't they basically 1025 00:49:16,050 --> 00:49:14,470 wouldn't treat him appropriately give 1026 00:49:23,610 --> 00:49:16,060 him appropriate treatment adequate 1027 00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:23,620 treatment and he you know that I know 1028 00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:26,710 that he's not the only one suffering in 1029 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:30,220 a very real immediate way as a result of 1030 00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:32,290 these kind of changes going on so they'd 1031 00:49:47,370 --> 00:49:40,320 if it is is this is this an appropriate 1032 00:49:50,340 --> 00:49:47,380 correction are are the are the like okay 1033 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:50,350 so there are many problems in this world 1034 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:52,810 there's poverty there's malnutrition 1035 00:49:56,820 --> 00:49:55,090 there's abuse there's and that's you 1036 00:49:58,170 --> 00:49:56,830 know I'm not covering everything at all 1037 00:49:59,820 --> 00:49:58,180 I can't list all the problems that are 1038 00:50:03,780 --> 00:49:59,830 going but people are in crisis all the 1039 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:03,790 time um I mean I look at this situation 1040 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:06,010 I'm like why didn't we just stop the 1041 00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:09,130 world because of diabetes like diabetes 1042 00:50:14,490 --> 00:50:11,110 is huge why didn't everybody just stay 1043 00:50:16,830 --> 00:50:14,500 inside until because he wouldn't do 1044 00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:16,840 anything but by staying inside 1045 00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:19,240 you're saving two million lives over the 1046 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:23,710 course of a year is that's the basic 1047 00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,650 science of why people are our social 1048 00:50:32,490 --> 00:50:28,000 isolation you know why everything is 1049 00:50:35,070 --> 00:50:32,500 being shut down I guess my point isn't 1050 00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:35,080 necessarily that diabetes is contagious 1051 00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:39,280 and that but what I'm Chatwood I what I 1052 00:50:44,010 --> 00:50:42,250 mean to say is that there 1053 00:50:48,930 --> 00:50:44,020 a lot of problems and there are a lot of 1054 00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:48,940 people suffering and if if the 1055 00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:53,880 government's cared like they are 1056 00:51:02,370 --> 00:50:57,930 suddenly caring about this there should 1057 00:51:04,650 --> 00:51:02,380 be a lot more Corrections so that people 1058 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:04,660 don't suffer in the way that they do and 1059 00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:06,850 it's just I think it's just an 1060 00:51:15,930 --> 00:51:12,070 incredible imbalance to put huge huge 1061 00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:15,940 numbers of people into immediate poverty 1062 00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:19,420 crisis and unable to get the type of 1063 00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:21,280 medical care that they need like people 1064 00:51:28,170 --> 00:51:25,900 can't go in for their own emergent 1065 00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:28,180 medical emergencies like somebody was 1066 00:51:31,740 --> 00:51:30,070 joking to me the other day here's coffee 1067 00:51:35,250 --> 00:51:31,750 and he's like oh don't worry it's not 1068 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:35,260 corona its just lung cancer like there 1069 00:51:42,780 --> 00:51:38,170 are there are other problems and that is 1070 00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:42,790 not to minimize a crisis of a pandemic 1071 00:51:50,100 --> 00:51:46,510 virus but that is to say that everything 1072 00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:50,110 else is being eclipsed and we are being 1073 00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:53,200 taught to passionately focus on this 1074 00:52:00,780 --> 00:51:58,570 singular problem and it's it's it's a 1075 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:00,790 poor balance for the type of I mean I 1076 00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:02,770 see new homeless people on the street 1077 00:52:06,090 --> 00:52:04,630 people just had to leave their homes and 1078 00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:06,100 I know there's something about eviction 1079 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:08,140 but there's a lot of under-the-table 1080 00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:09,730 things that go on and people can't 1081 00:52:16,860 --> 00:52:13,000 maintain people can't maintain with this 1082 00:52:22,530 --> 00:52:16,870 going on there's no like it people are 1083 00:52:26,730 --> 00:52:22,540 being put into a media crisis and I it's 1084 00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:26,740 it's no serious aim yes this is the cure 1085 00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:29,140 worse than the disease is an argument 1086 00:52:36,330 --> 00:52:32,500 but we do know the scale of the disease 1087 00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:36,340 and to some degree like it's hard to 1088 00:52:41,970 --> 00:52:39,910 know what the negative effects of the 1089 00:52:44,910 --> 00:52:41,980 the cure would be like say like we let 1090 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:44,920 these 2 million people died including 1091 00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:46,810 like hundreds of thousands of young 1092 00:52:51,390 --> 00:52:50,020 people and you know lots of people in 1093 00:52:54,420 --> 00:52:51,400 the work force and we completely 1094 00:52:56,099 --> 00:52:54,430 destroyed the capabilities of all the 1095 00:52:58,559 --> 00:52:56,109 hospitals because the B 1096 00:53:01,439 --> 00:52:58,569 they'll have ten times as many people in 1097 00:53:03,539 --> 00:53:01,449 them as we have now based on the 1098 00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:03,549 lockdown so nobody would be able to get 1099 00:53:08,339 --> 00:53:06,329 any any medical attention and we do that 1100 00:53:10,169 --> 00:53:08,349 for a while but everybody's still 1101 00:53:14,609 --> 00:53:10,179 allowed to go to work and not allowed to 1102 00:53:15,919 --> 00:53:14,619 socialize yeah is does this seem does 1103 00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:15,929 this seem better 1104 00:53:21,839 --> 00:53:19,089 yeah what are the actual options here 1105 00:53:24,179 --> 00:53:21,849 because the the option of doing nothing 1106 00:53:27,179 --> 00:53:24,189 doesn't sound very good the option of 1107 00:53:28,739 --> 00:53:27,189 doing less you know we could be could be 1108 00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,749 doing more we could actually be really 1109 00:53:33,419 --> 00:53:30,400 forcing people to stay there I went for 1110 00:53:35,189 --> 00:53:33,429 a drive yesterday and I saw there was 1111 00:53:36,839 --> 00:53:35,199 people everywhere the some states 1112 00:53:38,609 --> 00:53:36,849 haven't even done lockdown yeah we could 1113 00:53:41,029 --> 00:53:38,619 be doing way more than we're doing right 1114 00:53:46,999 --> 00:53:43,769 we can't go we can't do much of anything 1115 00:53:52,890 --> 00:53:47,009 that closed all the parks yeah very very 1116 00:53:55,380 --> 00:53:52,900 dystopian here um well I think there may 1117 00:54:03,390 --> 00:53:55,390 be shutting down the more dense areas 1118 00:54:05,819 --> 00:54:03,400 before I don't know yes it's it's 1119 00:54:07,049 --> 00:54:05,829 terrible what's happening like you know 1120 00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:07,059 it's terrible that all these people are 1121 00:54:10,589 --> 00:54:08,650 dying and is terrible that everybody's 1122 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:10,599 locked down and the economy is like 1123 00:54:13,769 --> 00:54:12,249 crashing like you know all these 1124 00:54:15,509 --> 00:54:13,779 companies going bankrupt and people are 1125 00:54:17,429 --> 00:54:15,519 gonna be losing their jobs and people 1126 00:54:20,669 --> 00:54:17,439 are not able to pay rent and maybe not 1127 00:54:22,499 --> 00:54:20,679 even buy food but you know we're stuck 1128 00:54:24,179 --> 00:54:22,509 between a rock and a hard place I think 1129 00:54:26,279 --> 00:54:24,189 and we had to make the decision 1130 00:54:30,299 --> 00:54:26,289 basically like you know save a million 1131 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:30,309 lives now versus you know have major 1132 00:54:35,219 --> 00:54:32,650 economic problems as we can deal with 1133 00:54:36,929 --> 00:54:35,229 major economic problems down the line we 1134 00:54:40,499 --> 00:54:36,939 can't just bring these million people 1135 00:54:43,859 --> 00:54:40,509 back you know maybe you can you know 1136 00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:43,869 there's a difference in perspective yeah 1137 00:54:49,650 --> 00:54:47,619 I'm talking about fake country yeah yeah 1138 00:54:51,419 --> 00:54:49,660 but I think most most people if the rest 1139 00:54:56,519 --> 00:54:51,429 like you know would you rather keep your 1140 00:54:57,660 --> 00:54:56,529 job or a million people die you know 1141 00:54:59,939 --> 00:54:57,670 obviously that's a bit disproportionate 1142 00:55:01,559 --> 00:54:59,949 would you rather like or everybody kept 1143 00:55:03,569 --> 00:55:01,569 their jobs and a people million people 1144 00:55:05,069 --> 00:55:03,579 died because these are the types of 1145 00:55:07,620 --> 00:55:05,079 numbers we're talking about here we are 1146 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:07,630 actually you know the the issue is you 1147 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:09,130 know hundreds a hundred thousand people 1148 00:55:13,050 --> 00:55:09,970 versus 1149 00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:13,060 1 million or 2 million people so it's 1150 00:55:20,099 --> 00:55:16,270 pretty pretty significant numbers of 1151 00:55:22,020 --> 00:55:20,109 dates though we have to the numbers 1152 00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:22,030 there's this is just basically 1153 00:55:28,020 --> 00:55:24,310 extrapolations of what's happened in 1154 00:55:29,819 --> 00:55:28,030 other countries if nothing is done so 1155 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:29,829 you measure the rate of increase of the 1156 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:32,890 disease before the measures are put into 1157 00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:35,530 place and then you see what happens when 1158 00:55:39,569 --> 00:55:37,089 the measures are put into place it the 1159 00:55:42,420 --> 00:55:39,579 curve flattens off but if there's not 1160 00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:42,430 place it carries on are you comparing 1161 00:55:47,849 --> 00:55:45,160 their numbers with the like a controlled 1162 00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:47,859 you have a control like how many how 1163 00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:50,680 many deaths are normally occurring yeah 1164 00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:53,560 what did you do you do because you you 1165 00:55:59,280 --> 00:55:57,280 have the deaths from this disease that 1166 00:56:06,059 --> 00:55:59,290 directly attributable to this disease 1167 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:06,069 and yeah you can race what is it what is 1168 00:56:13,290 --> 00:56:08,410 the what is the comparable for the 1169 00:56:15,740 --> 00:56:13,300 control numbers to now that's I'm just 1170 00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:15,750 I'm not seeing that in then I got 1171 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:18,720 statistics in high school and I know 1172 00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:22,690 well I know how many people how many 1173 00:56:25,940 --> 00:56:24,790 people generally die on a cruise when 1174 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:25,950 you go on a cruise 1175 00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:28,690 numbers how many people generally die 1176 00:56:35,220 --> 00:56:32,079 when you go on a cruise I don't know 1177 00:56:38,030 --> 00:56:35,230 probably very few yeah hardly any less 1178 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:38,040 than less than less than one usually 1179 00:56:42,809 --> 00:56:41,530 simply coronavirus yeah somebody will 1180 00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:42,819 get a heart attack cause there's like 1181 00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:45,069 old people on the cruise but you know 1182 00:56:48,750 --> 00:56:46,960 the when the coronavirus gets on a 1183 00:56:50,430 --> 00:56:48,760 armored ship they're carrying people off 1184 00:56:53,300 --> 00:56:50,440 in body bags they go well I think it's 1185 00:56:55,859 --> 00:56:53,310 like 17 people died on that cruise ship 1186 00:56:57,930 --> 00:56:55,869 she's very very unusual in it and that 1187 00:57:01,050 --> 00:56:57,940 you can just take that simple percentage 1188 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:01,060 of the percentage of people who died on 1189 00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:02,650 that cruise ship and the fact that you 1190 00:57:06,089 --> 00:57:03,910 know it spread rapidly through the 1191 00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:06,099 cruise ship even when they they lock 1192 00:57:11,579 --> 00:57:10,329 people down yeah because they didn't a 1193 00:57:14,609 --> 00:57:11,589 lot of people down initially it spread 1194 00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:14,619 throughout the entire ship and you could 1195 00:57:17,309 --> 00:57:15,910 you could use that as a simple 1196 00:57:18,990 --> 00:57:17,319 experiment you could just look at all 1197 00:57:20,220 --> 00:57:19,000 the different countries that we have now 1198 00:57:22,109 --> 00:57:20,230 we have experience of what actually 1199 00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:22,119 happened in each country and in the 1200 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:23,440 countries where they 1201 00:57:30,570 --> 00:57:26,170 Institute lockdowns sooner than the ETS 1202 00:57:32,610 --> 00:57:30,580 cases if they didn't do it then you get 1203 00:57:34,020 --> 00:57:32,620 more cases you're gonna get countries 1204 00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:34,030 like Brazil where they're being very 1205 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:36,640 slow doing things and it's gonna be it's 1206 00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:40,210 gonna be very bad there you Iraq around 1207 00:57:44,190 --> 00:57:42,550 is gonna have problems North Korea 1208 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:44,200 probably does have problems because you 1209 00:57:49,620 --> 00:57:45,370 know that it's not telling us about it 1210 00:57:52,740 --> 00:57:49,630 yet so you know the yeah the entire 1211 00:57:54,420 --> 00:57:52,750 world's epidemiological community has 1212 00:57:56,250 --> 00:57:54,430 focused pretty much on this one thing 1213 00:57:58,170 --> 00:57:56,260 right now and they're pretty much 1214 00:57:59,640 --> 00:57:58,180 speaking with one voice all the 1215 00:58:01,470 --> 00:57:59,650 different people in all the different 1216 00:58:04,350 --> 00:58:01,480 countries there's differences of you 1217 00:58:07,290 --> 00:58:04,360 know various different think about that 1218 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:07,300 in terms of I know we talked once and 1219 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:10,330 you were certain that there's a lot of 1220 00:58:16,590 --> 00:58:12,970 independence within media that different 1221 00:58:19,350 --> 00:58:16,600 media sources is they're not all of one 1222 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:19,360 like mind and I was saying it I think 1223 00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:20,890 that they are what do you think what do 1224 00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:23,170 you think now with them all having an 1225 00:58:28,260 --> 00:58:26,080 identical stance on the situation that 1226 00:58:30,690 --> 00:58:28,270 there's no is there differing opinion on 1227 00:58:33,860 --> 00:58:30,700 the appropriate response amongst 1228 00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:33,870 appropriate responses is clear and it's 1229 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:38,080 it's being hammered home by the reality 1230 00:58:43,710 --> 00:58:41,290 of the disease that people are dying of 1231 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:43,720 this disease and you might not see it 1232 00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:45,130 then your universe your nurse 1233 00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:46,750 practitioner might not be seeing it yeah 1234 00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:49,120 but it is actually really happening like 1235 00:58:54,510 --> 00:58:51,790 I know people who have had their 1236 00:58:56,580 --> 00:58:54,520 relatives die you know several people 1237 00:58:58,860 --> 00:58:56,590 that I actually know in my circle I've 1238 00:59:01,170 --> 00:58:58,870 had relative died of coronavirus and 1239 00:59:03,330 --> 00:59:01,180 yeah one a friend of mine I used to work 1240 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:03,340 with his brother just died and his 1241 00:59:05,970 --> 00:59:04,930 brother was like fifty years old and he 1242 00:59:08,370 --> 00:59:05,980 didn't really have anything wrong with 1243 00:59:08,730 --> 00:59:08,380 him and now he's he died in a like two 1244 00:59:13,020 --> 00:59:08,740 weeks 1245 00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:13,030 hey it is actually happening yeah well 1246 00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:17,350 I've I haven't said to you that I don't 1247 00:59:22,140 --> 00:59:19,390 think it's happening so you don't have I 1248 00:59:24,330 --> 00:59:22,150 think that the severity that the the 1249 00:59:27,690 --> 00:59:24,340 speaking with one voice they're speaking 1250 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:27,700 with one voice because what they are 1251 00:59:34,170 --> 00:59:31,210 saying is the reality this is a very 1252 00:59:35,850 --> 00:59:34,180 serious disease that is going to kill 1253 00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:35,860 lots of people if we don't do anything 1254 00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:36,880 about it 1255 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:38,799 and what about what about the 1256 00:59:44,729 --> 00:59:42,130 conversation beyond that question you 1257 00:59:46,829 --> 00:59:44,739 know what if that what if that is not 1258 00:59:49,499 --> 00:59:46,839 something that they would naturally 1259 00:59:52,769 --> 00:59:49,509 disagree on but what about the 1260 00:59:57,229 --> 00:59:52,779 conversation about the effects on 1261 00:59:59,670 --> 00:59:57,239 various populations of people from the 1262 01:00:03,329 --> 00:59:59,680 you know that yet forcing everybody to 1263 01:00:04,890 --> 01:00:03,339 give up their employment and these kind 1264 01:00:09,269 --> 01:00:04,900 of things like you would think that 1265 01:00:11,849 --> 01:00:09,279 certain media sources would take up the 1266 01:00:14,940 --> 01:00:11,859 other I mean look at what Fox News like 1267 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:14,950 Trump has said like few weeks ago he was 1268 01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:16,930 talking about how the The Cure cannot be 1269 01:00:21,539 --> 01:00:18,729 worse than disease and we really want to 1270 01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:21,549 get people back to work as soon as we 1271 01:00:25,529 --> 01:00:22,720 can 1272 01:00:27,779 --> 01:00:25,539 he was very much like of that mind two 1273 01:00:30,539 --> 01:00:27,789 weeks ago and now I think because of the 1274 01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:30,549 incredible rate of increase of deaths in 1275 01:00:34,259 --> 01:00:32,430 New York you know it's basically 1276 01:00:37,229 --> 01:00:34,269 realized that that was the wrong 1277 01:00:38,819 --> 01:00:37,239 approach the the media was talking all 1278 01:00:41,700 --> 01:00:38,829 about that Fox News you know they 1279 01:00:45,059 --> 01:00:41,710 basically repeat whatever Trump says and 1280 01:00:46,650 --> 01:00:45,069 vice versa they they were very much 1281 01:00:47,969 --> 01:00:46,660 saying you know this is overblown we 1282 01:00:49,289 --> 01:00:47,979 should pop your butt to work we don't 1283 01:00:50,849 --> 01:00:49,299 need to shut everything down it's a 1284 01:00:52,170 --> 01:00:50,859 mistake to shut down the schools and 1285 01:00:54,479 --> 01:00:52,180 Mister mistake - you're down churches 1286 01:01:00,900 --> 01:00:54,489 people we're talking about it the 1287 01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:00,910 reality is just hit home I think okay 1288 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:08,079 I mean okay I get you you got what you 1289 01:01:17,969 --> 01:01:16,210 want the world is working the way the 1290 01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:17,979 way the coronavirus wants it to work in 1291 01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:18,670 that 1292 01:01:23,609 --> 01:01:21,249 yeah kkona versus his blind brutal force 1293 01:01:25,380 --> 01:01:23,619 that's been unleashed in the world from 1294 01:01:29,789 --> 01:01:25,390 you know somebody eating a bat or 1295 01:01:31,979 --> 01:01:29,799 whatever did you reach out to me because 1296 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:31,989 you were hoping that I would take a an 1297 01:01:37,099 --> 01:01:34,930 opposite position - well I said to you 1298 01:01:39,390 --> 01:01:37,109 because you have this this very unusual 1299 01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,400 worldview and that you think that the 1300 01:01:45,690 --> 01:01:41,200 world is probably flat you think it's 1301 01:01:47,789 --> 01:01:45,700 not a spinning ball in space and then 1302 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:47,799 something happens like this this this 1303 01:01:53,420 --> 01:01:50,250 very big event that can a chain 1304 01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:53,430 the world and I wondering what your 1305 01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:56,310 perspective on that was does it make you 1306 01:02:04,010 --> 01:02:00,720 and in a way like engage more with the 1307 01:02:11,030 --> 01:02:04,020 world in a more realistic way or does 1308 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:11,040 the way you think well your I don't know 1309 01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:13,770 that I've ever not been engaging with 1310 01:02:19,310 --> 01:02:17,940 the world in a realistic way I mean if 1311 01:02:21,230 --> 01:02:19,320 you tell people you're a flutter that 1312 01:02:23,330 --> 01:02:21,240 people might disagree with that but is 1313 01:02:24,859 --> 01:02:23,340 that engaging with the world I guess 1314 01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:24,869 that's kind of semantics but the way you 1315 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:28,130 think about the world you you you think 1316 01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:32,010 it's not a majority of people do not 1317 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:34,680 share yes yes I do have numerous 1318 01:02:44,290 --> 01:02:36,450 opinions are the majority of people do 1319 01:02:44,300 --> 01:02:49,839 no I've never said that 1320 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:52,609 I asked ask you like what what you think 1321 01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:54,090 is going on with all these scientists 1322 01:02:57,170 --> 01:02:55,680 like you ever say there's there's 1323 01:02:58,550 --> 01:02:57,180 millions and millions and millions of 1324 01:03:02,390 --> 01:02:58,560 scientists and they all think the world 1325 01:03:04,700 --> 01:03:02,400 is round or so are they all mistaken or 1326 01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:04,710 other you're lying like it's it's never 1327 01:03:11,089 --> 01:03:08,280 really clear they're not lying there's I 1328 01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:11,099 it's it's a given that nobody is going 1329 01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:13,380 back and figuring out how to verify 1330 01:03:20,030 --> 01:03:16,320 they're doing the reliance that they're 1331 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:20,040 doing and focus on their you can't get a 1332 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:22,170 degree in verifying the shape of the 1333 01:03:27,530 --> 01:03:25,410 world that's not an attractive field a 1334 01:03:29,690 --> 01:03:27,540 lot of the science that they do verifies 1335 01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:29,700 it automatically it's just because they 1336 01:03:34,190 --> 01:03:32,089 used the flight the globe earth model 1337 01:03:35,450 --> 01:03:34,200 because when they do when do we do 1338 01:03:37,550 --> 01:03:35,460 something like I don't know surveying 1339 01:03:39,859 --> 01:03:37,560 mountains or what not they have to use a 1340 01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,869 model of the shape of the earth so all 1341 01:03:42,589 --> 01:03:41,520 these scientists have to use the global 1342 01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:42,599 model because it's the only one that 1343 01:03:49,790 --> 01:03:47,310 actually works verifying it you can go 1344 01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:49,800 and talk to very scientists and when you 1345 01:03:54,620 --> 01:03:52,710 actually get down to it I have not heard 1346 01:03:57,020 --> 01:03:54,630 anybody say that their science is 1347 01:03:59,359 --> 01:03:57,030 dependent on the globe model people 1348 01:04:01,579 --> 01:03:59,369 people say I mean I'm not talking about 1349 01:04:03,859 --> 01:04:01,589 like people are sitting space I'm 1350 01:04:07,220 --> 01:04:03,869 talking about 1351 01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,230 even people who study like land 1352 01:04:11,569 --> 01:04:09,599 surveyors whatever they work with a flat 1353 01:04:13,789 --> 01:04:11,579 earth model but they just assumed they 1354 01:04:15,470 --> 01:04:13,799 that that's just shorthand and they 1355 01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:15,480 don't need to work with the globe model 1356 01:04:20,539 --> 01:04:18,480 because X that def you actually looked 1357 01:04:23,870 --> 01:04:20,549 any any books in surveying cuz I looked 1358 01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:23,880 at though a video of somebody calling up 1359 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:25,890 all sorts of land surveyors and asking 1360 01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:28,170 them if they use the gold model and they 1361 01:04:31,759 --> 01:04:30,690 all say that they don't need to they 1362 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:31,769 don't need to because there any 1363 01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:35,730 disobeying like plots of land if then 1364 01:04:43,220 --> 01:04:37,619 what about map makers people who make 1365 01:04:49,220 --> 01:04:43,230 maps as a map maker that would where are 1366 01:04:51,319 --> 01:04:49,230 the men they work in Senegal do GIS 1367 01:04:52,819 --> 01:04:51,329 because it's all done digitally now I 1368 01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:52,829 mean it used to be done obviously with 1369 01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:55,249 the paper but it's also magically so 1370 01:05:01,970 --> 01:04:57,839 I'll see you something then you just 1371 01:05:06,650 --> 01:05:01,980 okay the computer told me like if you're 1372 01:05:10,279 --> 01:05:06,660 not going out and checking it physically 1373 01:05:13,279 --> 01:05:10,289 right stuff then you're you're not 1374 01:05:14,569 --> 01:05:13,289 engaging in that area of science that 1375 01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:14,579 doesn't mean you're not doing real 1376 01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:16,650 science I'm not saying that anybody out 1377 01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,720 there who's doing science isn't doing 1378 01:05:22,729 --> 01:05:20,880 science they're doing their science I 1379 01:05:26,420 --> 01:05:22,739 have friends who are in the field of 1380 01:05:28,579 --> 01:05:26,430 science like that's there they are doing 1381 01:05:30,670 --> 01:05:28,589 what they're doing but and they're not 1382 01:05:35,299 --> 01:05:30,680 lying I'm not calling them liers at all 1383 01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:35,309 they it's it's that they're not testing 1384 01:05:41,630 --> 01:05:39,599 though that would be silly for them they 1385 01:05:45,019 --> 01:05:41,640 would think that there's a need for that 1386 01:05:49,460 --> 01:05:45,029 and so they're off studying very 1387 01:05:50,289 --> 01:05:49,470 specific things that are separate 1388 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:50,299 questions 1389 01:05:56,210 --> 01:05:53,130 so someone say worked in the GPS 1390 01:05:59,509 --> 01:05:56,220 industry you think you can actually work 1391 01:06:02,089 --> 01:05:59,519 in the GPS industry as I don't know 1392 01:06:05,089 --> 01:06:02,099 someone who calibrates GPS systems or 1393 01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:05,099 does the algorithms for working out how 1394 01:06:08,180 --> 01:06:06,809 to drive from one place whether or fly 1395 01:06:11,930 --> 01:06:08,190 from one place that you think they could 1396 01:06:13,849 --> 01:06:11,940 actually do that without without 1397 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:13,859 figuring out what the actual shape of 1398 01:06:17,770 --> 01:06:15,930 the earth is without things going wrong 1399 01:06:22,700 --> 01:06:17,780 because although all the math they do 1400 01:06:25,900 --> 01:06:22,710 yeah the math isn't very complicated and 1401 01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:25,910 somebody who works on GPS and has 1402 01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,540 physically business at shape world and 1403 01:06:36,589 --> 01:06:32,700 doesn't just get it from that computer 1404 01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,599 screen if you can find interesting 1405 01:06:40,579 --> 01:06:38,400 interesting way of putting it 1406 01:06:41,870 --> 01:06:40,589 all right oh we've been we've been 1407 01:06:43,460 --> 01:06:41,880 soaking for an hour and a half and I 1408 01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:43,470 have to go because my wife is cooking 1409 01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:47,280 dinner and it's been very interesting 1410 01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:49,680 and I yeah I kind of look forward to 1411 01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,319 hearing from you again in a few months 1412 01:06:58,130 --> 01:06:54,000 like you know say six to twelve months 1413 01:07:03,740 --> 01:06:58,140 when the corona stuff is kind of the 1414 01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:03,750 freedom to speak out let me ask you do 1415 01:07:09,859 --> 01:07:08,670 you do you hope that they give back some 1416 01:07:13,250 --> 01:07:09,869 of the power they're taking oh 1417 01:07:17,569 --> 01:07:13,260 definitely yeah yeah and I hope that it 1418 01:07:20,359 --> 01:07:17,579 doesn't yeah there are too many 1419 01:07:23,470 --> 01:07:20,369 repercussions down the line in terms of 1420 01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:23,480 the authoritarian nature of the states 1421 01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:27,359 but you know I've I was worried about 1422 01:07:32,569 --> 01:07:30,240 that before you would say that it does 1423 01:07:35,390 --> 01:07:32,579 feel like an encroaching authoritarian 1424 01:07:38,270 --> 01:07:35,400 state then well it I think is I think 1425 01:07:40,130 --> 01:07:38,280 the the encroachment is necessary 1426 01:07:42,589 --> 01:07:40,140 like I've described before I think it's 1427 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:42,599 a real really bad disease and this in it 1428 01:07:46,370 --> 01:07:44,010 is actually necessary to take these 1429 01:07:48,470 --> 01:07:46,380 steps but I think there is a danger that 1430 01:07:51,559 --> 01:07:48,480 people might take advantage of that and 1431 01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:51,569 not give back powers that are granted to 1432 01:07:56,599 --> 01:07:53,460 them in the future and this will vary by 1433 01:07:59,210 --> 01:07:56,609 country as well some some countries are 1434 01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:59,220 more authoritarian than others hopefully 1435 01:08:03,579 --> 01:08:00,720 the checks and balances in the United 1436 01:08:06,170 --> 01:08:03,589 States can prevent that to some degree 1437 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:06,180 but I guess we'll see let's let's talk 1438 01:08:08,660 --> 01:08:08,250 again in in a year and see where we're 1439 01:08:16,459 --> 01:08:08,670 at 1440 01:08:20,740 --> 01:08:16,469 power through this crisis okay thank you 1441 01:08:22,510 --> 01:08:20,750 and very what yeah you say stay safe and